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13 July 2005 @ 02:10 am
boring, boring, boring  
I will get my act together.

Things will remain okay.

(I always get self-critical when I'm feeling too sick to sleep. Nothing's actually wrong beyond there being clothes on my floor and the fact that I seem incapable of forcing myself to take my damned meds three times a day and eat food and be polite to my father's billion friends when I'm not feeling 100%. And a lack of self-discipline to just lie in bed at 9 pm no matter how much I want a distraction. It'll all be fine tomorrow, whine whine whine.)

edit: never mind! I just remembered that I went on new herbal meds today on a pretty high dosage, and that life was actually delightful and rosy up until 6 pm when they started. I always forget that changing stuff like that makes me bonkers for a while. *tables this bit of angst, then*

I did watch a lot of Babylon 5 tonight, though. And then proceeded to wax endlessly and nonsensically about it. I've spared you all most of my scattered B5 rambles until now by keeping them in a Word Document of Fear-Inducing Geekiness, but I'll post two of them here unedited just so this isn't just me whining. Spoilers all the way through, but thoughts came from watching the beginning of season 2. (I do actually advise you don't read them, since they're long and probably quite inane, and I don't feel up to editing. My sudden desire to communicate with the internet demands that I post anyway.)

I started thinking about the layers and layers of secrecy on B5. No one really trusts anyone completely. I mean, Delenn and Sheridan are the OTP and I'm pretty sure they will never, ever tell each other The Whole Truth about what happened during the Minbari war, above and beyond whatever other Minbari secrets Delenn is sitting on. I doubt Sinclair ever told Catherine about the hole in his mind. Given the characters and situations established, it's almost impossible, even in fanfic, to get characters to the point where they could trust each other that much. Susan and Talia? I doubt it. They're both far too paranoid, and have been conditioned to keep secrets since childhood, which extends to any other pairing involving either of them. Susan/Marcus? She'll melt, but she'll still keep some things close to her. Zack/Lyta? No way. No matter how well it worked out, in theory, Lyta would keep the extent of her screwed-up-ness to herself. My beloved Talia/Garibaldi OTP? Not a chance.

Unlike Star Trek and Stargate, where emphasis is placed on how much like a family everyone is and how close they are, the characters on B5 are remarkably alone, even when they're working (or sleeping) together.

Now, this didn't sit well with me when I was a teenager and writing B5 fic. My solution was to put Talia and Lyta in a deeply telepathically codependent friendship (after, of course, rescuing Talia from the Psi Corps. I set out to make B5 a real happy-ever-after, which is no small challenge on that show), so that these two exceptionally isolated characters could have someone to share the true depths of angst with regarding all their telepathic alterations/violations and whatnot. (This was before Byron showed up -- Byron/Lyta is the one romantic exception to this problem. I think. It's been a while since I've watched season 5.)

So... on the series itself, the only two sets of people that I think really trusted each other that much are Sinclair and Garibaldi, and then Sheridan and Ivanova. Neither of these are canonically romantic pairings. I'm not sure I really have a point, except that this show is VERY SAD.

****

I'm thinking about Talia/Garibaldi in a slightly more rational and less "omg squeee!" way, now that I'm rewatching this season, and I'm realizing the problems inherent in that relationship. leyenn has been pointing out that she can't get Talia to want him, and I'm starting to see why. Being in a truly loving, committed relationship would mean opening herself up to how deeply erratic and emotional Garibaldi is, which is a lot to ask of a telepath, especially one as... delicate as Talia. Some of the most explosive outbursts we see from him in the first two seasons happen when she is put in danger, so she's well aware of this. (Also, squeee.)

There's something strange about the UST in this pairing. I have no doubt that Michael really, really likes her. She's ridiculously hot, she's kind, and he connects with her in a way that -- he indicates in "Soul Mates" -- he's never really experienced with anyone else. However... she's out of his league, and he knows it. He's incredibly dorky around her in his flirtation, which is adorable, but the real way he shows his affection is in how he protects her. I'm noticing something halfhearted about the way he flirts with her, and how he's surprised (but delighted) when she banters back. I don't think he really expects anything more to come of this beyond her letting him hang around as security guard to be called upon when necessary.

And she... well, in the first season, it's banter, and she shoots him down again and again. But in the second season, as often as not, she is the one moving toward him (inviting him to tea in "Spider in the Web" and coming to see him in "Soul Mates" and, since I'm reaching anyway, I'm going to count her very familiar and inviting "I'll see you later" at the end of The One Where She Scans Him After He Gets Shot In The Back). The thing is, I get the feeling that she's using him.

In rewatching "Soul Mates," I found the one line that really clinched it for me, and that was Matt Stoner: "Tough guy. You've surrounded yourself with tough guys, Talia." That's exactly the feeling I get watching the way Talia flirts with Michael. She likes him and/or wants him because of the strength and protection he offers her, and she manipulates him -- using his obvious affection for her -- into being even more willing to stand between her and the firing squad.

So, on the face of it, this pairing works in an arranged way much more than an omg-love! way. He adores her, and will settle for just being able to protect her and the occasional bit of affection. She likes him, tolerates him, and craves the rather unconditional protection he would offer her in the face of how much her life sucks.

But... they still totally get to be my squeee-inducing OTP, because while that's the foundation of their relationship, there are little flashes of something more. In "Spider in the Web," the tea scene is adorable, and it seems almost like Talia's surprised by how much she genuinely enjoys his company. In "Soul Mates," she comes to his quarters to apologize for being a bitch, but she confesses a lot to him, and it's more than we've seen her confess to anyone else up to that point. (In fact, the very next episode is "A Race Through Dark Places," where she is back to insisting that she looooves Psi Corps instead of fearing it and wanting out. I want to pretend that this is because she does feel safer around him -- at least in the serious ways, although certainly he unsettles her and tries her patience -- but really, I just have no good explanation for this one.) That isn't the first time she confides in him, either, since she lets him see her upset in "Quality of Mercy." She's still smooth and guarded around him... but a bit less so.

And, um, I'm not that sophisticated a 'shipper. I love them because it... well, I was going to say it hits all my kinks, but really, it might have defined most of them to begin with, so that's a bit circular.

He's tough but deeply damaged, to the point where he's convinced he's unredeemable.

She's a damsel in a very bad situation that she can't quite handle alone, yet still bounces back enough to remain collected and self-assured.

She's a telepath. And he isn't. Yes, that part of the kink seems to have been defined by this pairing for me, but I really really like that she has the upper hand in that in this pairing. This opens all kinds of fun doors -- she's the only one who can ever really understand and forgive his damaged-ness, yet she gets to remain mysterious to him.

And... he has the desire to save her from everyone else, and she has the capacity to save him from himself. There's something about how she's so far above him in his eyes (despite her status as a second-class citizen, omg, this IS a romance novel). If she can find something love-able in him, it really will mean that he's all right.

leyenn, I think, (or, hey, maybe it was me) said that she would never really be able to be herself with him because he isn't a telepath... and that's true. In all my slightly-less-fatally-angsty!verse fics where I paired them off, Talia got to run around doing Crazy Telepath Things with Lyta, so that sort of worked out. However... even without that, I don't feel like this is a dealbreaker for a real, wonderful, squeee-inducing relationship. I keep going back to that scene in "Soul Mates" where she barges into his quarters and tells him that she's tired of being a telepath, because that really is the scene for this pairing. There's a big part of her that wants to just close off some of the freaky telepathness and just be normal, and that is the other big part of his appeal to her.

Playing at "normal" won't help her develop as a telepath or as The Future, of course. Garibaldi won't really understand and will be a bit scared anytime she tried to push herself (Susan, for the record, would probably be scared, too -- if more understanding). She'd have to fight him on that, and it wouldn't be easy.

So I'm still squeeeing a lot over here, but I've started to realize the complications. :)

If anyone feels like writing me fic, you know, it wouldn't be unwelcome. ;) I still owe fic for about a billion other things, so I won't actually ask for short fic challenges involving these two, but those also wouldn't go amiss. For all my love of this pairing, it's oddly difficult for me to write.
 
 
feel: sicksick
 
 
 
entertaining in a disturbing way: Jenna princesslyssie on July 13th, 2005 06:48 am (UTC)
*eeps and covers eyes so as to remain (mostly) unspoiled*

I love rambling thingies, though. Even if most of mine end up never being written and posted. I love reading them. *pines as will have to wait until has seen it all*

I shall make you repost them, then. I shall demand people give me things to cogitate on.

And there is Talia/Garibaldi out there. Isn't there?
Little Red: b5 - talia garibaldi uncertain - lyssiemylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:04 pm (UTC)
You can read the second one, actually. In the first one I thought there were more spoilers than there are, but there is mention of a character and romantic pairing from season 5.

Rambling thinggies are fun! I just feel like I should be SMART and either coherent or joyously squeeeful when posting on livejournal. Hrm.

There really isn't Talia/Garibaldi out there. I've found maybe two things in my YEARS of scouring the internet for it: one was AU, and one was post-control in which she sexes him in an evil way in a totally spoilery episode that I won't mention further.

Somehow, trying to write fic for an empty fandom is SO MUCH HARDER once their story arc has completed on-screen than it was at the beginning of the John/Liz days, when we could toss around AUs like nobody's business. Grr.
(Deleted comment)
Little Red: b5 - talia garibaldi uncertain - lyssiemylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:07 pm (UTC)
NO! Well, yes, there is this AU, and I found one or two more things at FF.net yeeeears ago. Since there really isn't an established fandom, I feel like I would need to start with some kind of... er... important fic that would explain why this pairing rocks, instead of just random "they do telepath sex and r in love!" squeeefest. Grr.
(Deleted comment)
Little Red: b5 - all alone in the night - thatfangirmylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:12 pm (UTC)
HE IS! Yes yes yes!! THERE NEEDS TO BE FIC!!!!

*runs around in little online circles flailing about the inherent angst*

Especially because he sekritly wants her to read all his thoughts and still approve of him anyway, but he doesn't really think anyone *could* forgive him all that, so he'll be nasty and defensive. And the whole FEAR OF TELEPATHS! thing in Babylon 5 makes it extra-wonderful. Eeeee.
(Deleted comment)
Little Red: b5 - talia garibaldi uncertain - lyssiemylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:15 pm (UTC)
YES. YES IT IS. And, er, I'm not quite sure of the FFKOAH qualifications, so you'll have to investigate further with others in the know, prolly. But he is indeed angsty for he is, like, THE GUY whose life will never, ever, ever go right for him.
(Deleted comment)
Little Red: b5 - talia garibaldi uncertain - lyssiemylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:26 pm (UTC)
Hmm. Okay. Yes, he's older than she is. He's not really authoritative toward her, though -- she's actually one of the few people he's quite gentle to when it's called for (if in a bit of a boorish way) -- because they're not in the same command structure, though they do occasionally work together.
(Deleted comment)
Little Red: b5 - talia garibaldi uncertain - lyssiemylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:35 pm (UTC)
Nope. Sorry. He's the chief of security. he is in season one, and then he is from then on.

Alas! Another potential FFKOAH candidate fails to measure up. It was fun while it lasted. :)
(Deleted comment)
Little Red: b5 - lyta vorlons - ruugermylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:48 pm (UTC)
Nah, the second guy's way too puppyish for that.

I am surprised you never watched B5, because it seems like something that would suit you (and I suspect that Battlestar Galactica might not have been able to be as dark-and-edgy as it is if B5 hadn't taken some solid steps in that direction). However, it lacks FFKOAH, so, sadness.
(Deleted comment)
Little Redmylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 04:17 pm (UTC)
Just a warning: the first half of the first season is fabulously, ridiculously, old-skool-BSG *bad*. If you get into the show, you'll definitely want to see the first season because it's all so lovely-ly plot-arced right from the get-go... but the second season is definitely more accessible with less brain-destroying acting. :)

Third and fourth seasons rock HARDCORE, but because the arc is already in full swing, they might be hard to get into. So w00t! *reccomends season 2*
Samin_parentheses on July 13th, 2005 11:47 am (UTC)
I think you're right about Byron/Lyta being the only romantic couple who completely trust each other and open up to each other. And they're probably the least compelling couple on the show, in my opinion. (Mostly because Byron is such a damn weenie. "You're a BCFMO" - UGH!) I guess I just love the torment. I'm a Buffy fan too, after all.
Little Red: b5 - lyta vorlons - ruugermylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:09 pm (UTC)
Byron/Lyta were totally an afterthought, because it really IS so boring. Thing is... despite the boringness... poor Lyta deserved something non-sucky in her life. I just wish it had been more entertaining to watch.

AHAHAHA, I remember that BCFMO scene! *giggles* And she is his WILLOW! He really was a weenie. Even at 16, I had my doubts about this romance.
Leyenn: susan - godleyenn on July 13th, 2005 12:10 pm (UTC)
I will be replying to this later.

Quite possibly in detail. ;) Because, squee. B5 meta!

Damn work. An hour's lunch isn't long enough!
Little Red: b5 - lyta vorlons - ruugermylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:10 pm (UTC)
SQUEEE! I will have to go back and check your post and see what was *not* answered here. OMG. I LOVE YOU SO. You have totally recharged my B5 love!
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on July 13th, 2005 12:11 pm (UTC)
Hee. *loves you* *too busy with ficathon to read B5 notes but wants to come back to them*

There will be Zelenka fic on Thursday; meanwhile, there's fic in my journal but tis mostly slash. I owe qwirky a really good Sparky fic, though. *hopes can write it*

Moment to moment. I'm glad you figured out the why's of your mood; sometimes that's half the battle. I'm confident better days are coming for you.

*hugs*
Little Red: sga - love of a hero - lizmylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:14 pm (UTC)
No problem! beefive notes boring to those who are not, er, me, or equally obsessed at the moment! :)

*tackles you wif love* Yes! SPARKY SPARKY SPARKY SPARKY!

And better days are totally already here. I was just cranky because the new herbs kept me from sleeping well. (Hopefully they will function similarly with the not-sleeping now that it's daytime!)
Allie O'N: squeealliesings on July 13th, 2005 01:32 pm (UTC)
I always liked the chemistry between the two of them. It's funny that I didn't associate it with Riker/Troi until you mentioned the whole "she's a telepath and he isn't" part. Very thought-provoking. I always felt that Garibaldi was the one most hurt by her being taken by PsiCorps.
Little Red: b5 - talia garibaldi uncertain - lyssiemylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:23 pm (UTC)
*squeeeee*

And... DUDE! The episode "Soul Mates" about them is written by Peter David, who wrote Imzadi. HEEE! No wonder he was attracted to that pairing.

I suppose it could be considered a Riker/Troi in a universe where Troi is being horribly controlled by the Betazoid and distrusted and hated by everyone for her telepathic ability and, er, Riker's way less upstanding than he really is.

I always felt that Garibaldi was the one most hurt by her being taken by PsiCorps.

SO SAD!! Yes. I agree, but there's only one really explosive scene of his about her after she leaves, and all the attention is focused on Ivanova surrounding that incident. But. *snuggles him madly* POOR GUY!
Bitch-extraordinaire!: Eighth Doctorsakuracorr on July 13th, 2005 02:13 pm (UTC)
*cuddles*
Little Redmylittleredgirl on July 13th, 2005 03:23 pm (UTC)
*cuddles back!*
MsRaven: Hey Guero!msraven929 on July 14th, 2005 12:59 am (UTC)
*sends hugs*

Felt the need to post a comment because I miss our conversations. I've been finding it extremely annoying these day that I'm so busy with actual work at work that I can't keep in touch with many friends and write fic like I want. Geez! I actually have to be productive. ;)

And now, I'm sorely tempted to run out and buy the B5 DVDs. I loved that show even though I faded out in the last few seasons. I never noticed a Garibaldi/Talia OTP...will have to watch more closely if I ever get a hold of those seasons.

But I mostly wanted to comment and send love your way! :)