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07 September 2008 @ 08:42 am
Very Important Deep Space Nine Season Five Inquiry!  
I'm watching season 5 in a breathlessobsessedagain sort of manner (OMG THE FABULOUSNESS!!!!), and I have a VERY IMPORTANT DILEMMA that I can't discuss with my boyfriend yet, since he is UNSPOILED!

The whole "Julian Bashir is a Changeling!" thing is ALL MANNER OF NUTS, guys, and there are all manner of questions left unanswered -- most importantly when he was replaced episode-wise. We know it was a few months (3 months, if I remember correctly), and we know it had to have been before "Rapture," because when the real Julian is found in the Gamma Quadrant, he's wearing the pre-"Rapture" uniform.

What that means, right off the bat:

1) Julian missed Kirayoshi O'Brien being born! I thought the changeling delivered the baby, which was even more !!!!!, but I just rewatched that episode and it was Random Bajoran Midwife all the way. I still feel like Miles and Kira should be the MOST freaked out by the changeling-replacement thing, though, because he was so involved with the baby's care.

2) The changeling let a baby changeling die in "The Begotten." I think it's possible that the baby changeling was beyond help, but I'm surprised that the Never Harm Another instinct didn't kick in and send the Bashir Changeling hightailing it back to the Great Link with baby!changeling in tow to try and save it.

3) Speaking of "Begotten," I realized that the Bashir Changeling manages to hide his distaste for Odo... kind of totally. Not only that, but he doesn't do anything in reaction to Odo turning back into a changeling. What could he do, I guess?

But that's just IF he was captured right before "Rapture." I mean, can we assume that Julian was still Julian in "Let He Who Is Without Sin..."? Because otherwise that changeling got laid a lot, and Julian doesn't know that Leeta broke up with him, which would be seriously awkward and crazy. And what if he's been a changling since the beginning of the season!? He wouldn't even know Dax and Worf are together until Worf shows up on the Dominion prison and tells him.

Please, opine on this! It's important fanfic-related informations.

List of the episodes around what I'm talking about in case you don't know episode titles and/or want a timeline:

  • "Body Parts" - Kira is impregnated with Keiko/Miles' baby. We know she carries it for 5 months.

  • "Broken Link" - Season 4 finale. Odo is turned into a solid.

  • (...time passes during which Klingons attack Arkanis a lot...)

  • "Apocalypse Rising" - Season 5 premiere. Sisko, Odo, Miles & Worf go try to kill Gowron.

  • "The Ship" - Sisko & co. find a crashed Jem'Hadar ship. Julian spends the episode under arrest for importing flea spiders.

  • "Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places" - Jadzia and Worf hook up. This is around a month before "The Begotten," since Kira says her due date is at least that far away.

  • "... Nor the Battle to the Strong" - Julian & Jake help out at a hospital when Klingons invade. Julian is genuinely distraught when he thinks Jake is missing/killed.

  • "The Assignment" - Keiko = Pagh Wraith, omg.

  • "Trials and Tribble-ations" - Time-travel!!! I'd cry if Julian missed this joy.

  • "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." - Julian, Leeta, Dax, Worf & Quark go to Risa. Julian & Leeta break up.

  • "Things Past" - Odo brain-links with Sisko, Garak & Dax. Julian... stands around not being able to help them.

  • "The Ascent" - Odo & Quark episode.

  • "Rapture" - New uniforms, so Bashir is definitely a changeling now! Sisko = THE EMISSARY LIEK WHOA! Bajor is accepted to the Federation, but The Sisko tells them not to accept! Changeling!Julian does some surgery. Sisko's ability to see the future and Know Everything About Everyone does not extend to noticing Julian is a changeling.

  • "The Darkness and The Light" - Crazy Cardassian kills all of Kira's Bajoran friends. Changeling!Julian does some more surgery. At least three weeks take place between this and the next episode, presumably, since that's how long Kira said she had to carry the baby before Julian would allow her to go into labor. This is a little wierd, since timeline-wise that means that the past 7 episodes have happened in just a few weeks. So we can just say that Julian's initial due date estimate was wrong, and more time has passed.

  • "The Begotten" - Kira has a baby. Changeling baby shows up all sick-like. Changeling!Julian lets Odo play house with it, then fails to save it when its morphogenic matrix destabilizes. Baby!changeling is absorbed into Odo's body, making Odo a changeling again. Changeling!Julian doesn't care.

  • "For the Uniform" - It's an episode about holofilter viewscreens. Eddington! Sisko! Victor Hugo! Changeling!Julian doesn't do much.

  • "In Purgatory's Shadow" - the audience finds out that Julian is a changeling. No one else does until...

  • "By Inferno's Light" - Changeling!Julian steals runabout and tries to blow up the Bajoran sun! And then dies. Regular!Julian returns to find that he missed a bunch of stuff.

Because people like polls:

Julian was replaced by a changling...

Right before "Rapture," so he misses as little as possible.
Before "The Ascent" -- he would have had time to go to that conference where he was captured, since he wasn't doing much.
Before "Things Past" -- the changeling was the one to identify the "brain-link" between Odo & the others.
Before "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." -- the changeling broke up with Leeta.
Before "Trials & Tribble-ations" -- Julian missed the joy!
Before "The Assignment" .... why not?
Before "Nor the Battle to the Strong" -- Julian was at a medical conference, but Jake was with him. Conceivably, he and Jake could have arrived at the conference separately. In that case, Jake was doing an article on Changeling!Bashir!
Before "Looking for par'Mach" -- Julian doesn't even know Dax is taken!
At the beginning of the season -- the changling took over ASAP after "Broken Link."
Not really any of the above -- the writers probably didn't even know Julian was going to be a changeling until "In Purgatory's Shadow," and so none of this was planned out.
My "omg! a poll!!1!"-ness is weakened by your INSANE and SAD geekery.

OTHER THINGS I NEED to complete the madness: 1) A Deep Space Nine layout/header/something. How cool would it be to have a layout that look like DS9's bizarre Cardassian layouts? I THOUGHT SO. 2) Deep Space Nine moodtheme. 3) ALL MY ICONS to be replaced with DS9 ones. 4) To mainline the rest of Season 5! 5) NEW BRAIN DRUGS so that I can write fic instead of silly posts like this!
feel: contemplativethinking thinky thoughts
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on September 7th, 2008 05:20 pm (UTC)

I totally need to go back and watch DS9, don't I? I'd dropped out by this time - Terry Ferrell's acting (ha!) chops and the overall storylines previously had just not done it for me.

3) ALL MY ICONS to be replaced with DS9 ones.

...noooooooooooooooes, your Stargate icons! :(
Little Red: trek - sisko niners - nos'mylittleredgirl on September 7th, 2008 05:24 pm (UTC)

We should organize a big watch-along or something for some episodes. I know liminalliz would be on board...

I don't think I could possibly get rid of all my lantis icons! It just could not happen. (Also, I have like 144 icon slots now, and finding that many icons would take all week.) But Star Trek is rather underrepresented in my iconness, and my obsession sez this must be fixed.

I think you're supposed to just look at Terry Farrell and not worry about the acting so much?
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on September 7th, 2008 05:36 pm (UTC)
Probably. But word had it she was a bitch and a half at a local con so I'm biased. And, um. Het enough that looking at her wasn't enough to cover for her SRS lack of acting chops.

So, um. *shifty eyes* Any ideas where I could acquire DS9 for cheap? Because I have nada.

Edited at 2008-09-07 05:37 pm (UTC)
Tricia: Girls Nighttriciabyrne1978 on September 7th, 2008 06:00 pm (UTC)
I would totally be up for re-watch and chat about the show. I was still into it in Season 5 but Season 6 and 7 got sucked up in other stuff with RL and school stuff.

Also, I can *ahem* it for you if you want it REAL cheap. I have all of it on DVD.
Havochavocthecat on September 7th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC)
I would love a re-watch. It would be fun!
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on September 7th, 2008 08:51 pm (UTC)
Oooh! *ahem* away, pls! :D
Triciatriciabyrne1978 on September 7th, 2008 10:08 pm (UTC)
Starting at Season 5 or before?
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on September 7th, 2008 10:09 pm (UTC)
Uh...before? *cutes* I'm not sure when I stopped watching. It was before they entered Mirrorverse, that's all I know.
Triciatriciabyrne1978 on September 7th, 2008 10:12 pm (UTC)
I can start with the pilot if you like. or start somewhere else and go back and *ahem* the rest for you later.
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on September 7th, 2008 10:15 pm (UTC)
Hrm. Little Red? Any idea where the party might start?

...Let's say s.4. I know I watched for a few years, I know it was before Worf showed up, and it was still Jadzia (sigh) not Ezri.
Little Red: trek - sisko niners - nos'mylittleredgirl on September 10th, 2008 03:30 pm (UTC)
Ooooooh! Well, I agree that the party heats up in Season 4 for sure, and the first ep of Season 4 is so delightful. Ezri only shows up for the last season, FYI. However, it's worth your while to watch a few of the earlier episodes, at least -- the pilot "Emissary" is so wonderful and faboo and I love eet so, and it establishes a lot of the Bajor & Sisko As Emissary stuff. I could pick out more plot-useful ones as needed if you want to go that route...
Rose Wilde-Irishrosewildeirish on September 10th, 2008 03:36 pm (UTC)
Yes please. I did see the pilot, but it's been ages.
Little Red: trek - sisko niners - nos'mylittleredgirl on September 10th, 2008 04:13 pm (UTC)
Maybe I'll start a whole post so other people can chime in?

I have done so!
miera_c: puppiesmiera_c on September 7th, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC)
You're going to disown me as a sockpuppet now.
I've never watched DS9.

Except the episode where Sisko imagines/dreams/sees himself as a scifi writer in the 1950s, cause a colleague of mine uses that episode in classes.
Rose Wilde-Irish: Carson by crackpressrosewildeirish on September 7th, 2008 08:52 pm (UTC)
Re: You're going to disown me as a sockpuppet now.
...that just means it can be brand shiny new for you! *beams*
Little Red: trek - encyclopedia - ghost_sheepmylittleredgirl on September 10th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC)
Re: You're going to disown me as a sockpuppet now.
What Rose said!!

I don't disown you. I just need to kidnap you and make you watch DS9 until you become overcome with gleee.

That episode is so delightful! Though much of the delight comes from having seen the rest of the show, so I'm not sure how well it stands up on its own.

redbeardredbeard on September 7th, 2008 10:43 pm (UTC)
Hrm. As we've dealt with the final 5 in BSG, and Moore has openly said that they didn't entirely know who the final 5 were until part-way into the season when they actually wrote the script, I'm going to guess that, again, while the writers knew someone was going to be a changeling, it wasn't until they were writing, or just before writing, they wrote In Purgatory's Shadow. Maybe, maybe, it wsa around For The Uniform. But I'm guessing not.

More importantly, I'm guessing Siddig El Fadil (or, Alexander Siddig, as he is going by these days) didn't know until he got the script in his hands. (also of note - I had non idea that he and Nana Visitor had a kid!)

fyi, I'm finally watching the final season of ds9. It's interesting. I understand your love of Ezri much more now.
Little Red: trek - sisko niners - nos'mylittleredgirl on September 10th, 2008 03:33 pm (UTC)


I assumed you would HAVE to after mainlining season 6 at the Pawtucket House of Couch with me & Justin before the Tau GC that one year...